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	<title>Comments on: Finding correct boredom in education</title>
	<link>http://stigmergicweb.org/2005/04/15/finding-correct-boredom-in-education/</link>
	<description>I prefer the company of peasants because they have not been educated sufficiently to reason incorrectly - Michel de Montaigne</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 15:13:14 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Rob Wall</title>
		<link>http://stigmergicweb.org/2005/04/15/finding-correct-boredom-in-education/#comment-813</link>
		<author>Rob Wall</author>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Apr 2005 21:10:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://stigmergicweb.org/2005/04/15/finding-correct-boredom-in-education/#comment-813</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I think I agree with you, Dave, especially your comment that people should not need to be taught to be lifelong learners. Our brains are wired for learning as long as something doesn't interfere with the process. I suppose that is what happens when the boring sguff is the focus of our schools (if you don't mind me using your phrase).&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;There are, I think, two kinds of boring that we can encounter in school. Some tasks, like memorizing multiplication tables, are inherently boring despite any amount of window dressing that might be attached to it (flash cards, reader rabbit type drill programs), but they are necessary as the foundation for higher learning that is interesting. There are also the boring tasks that are there to serve the structure of the system; a lot of what we do in terms of student assessment serves the educational structure instead of the student (what the hell does a 64 mean anyway? we might as well assign them colours - at least it would make report cards more aesthetically interesting). You're right - the structure doesn't scale. I've been the 1 in the class of 30 or more students, and I've always felt I was shortchanging them.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Boring is a very interesting topic, I think, and some ideas are falling into place that I'll post in the near future.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think I agree with you, Dave, especially your comment that people should not need to be taught to be lifelong learners. Our brains are wired for learning as long as something doesn&#8217;t interfere with the process. I suppose that is what happens when the boring sguff is the focus of our schools (if you don&#8217;t mind me using your phrase).</p>
<p>There are, I think, two kinds of boring that we can encounter in school. Some tasks, like memorizing multiplication tables, are inherently boring despite any amount of window dressing that might be attached to it (flash cards, reader rabbit type drill programs), but they are necessary as the foundation for higher learning that is interesting. There are also the boring tasks that are there to serve the structure of the system; a lot of what we do in terms of student assessment serves the educational structure instead of the student (what the hell does a 64 mean anyway? we might as well assign them colours - at least it would make report cards more aesthetically interesting). You&#8217;re right - the structure doesn&#8217;t scale. I&#8217;ve been the 1 in the class of 30 or more students, and I&#8217;ve always felt I was shortchanging them.</p>
<p>Boring is a very interesting topic, I think, and some ideas are falling into place that I&#8217;ll post in the near future.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Bauer</title>
		<link>http://stigmergicweb.org/2005/04/15/finding-correct-boredom-in-education/#comment-812</link>
		<author>Dave Bauer</author>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Apr 2005 19:41:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://stigmergicweb.org/2005/04/15/finding-correct-boredom-in-education/#comment-812</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Its kind of amusing to imagine children need to be &lt;em&gt;taught&lt;/em&gt; that some things in life must be done. I suspect most kids live in an average home, with an average amount of chores, maintainence tasks, etc. I believe all children will learn by being around adults who do these tasks that you must do some things to get to the fun stuff. Of course, let's not strive for mediocrity. I hope every kid learns that it is possible to  make a fulfilling life, where most of it has meaning, and the little chores fade into the background. School as we know if fails when the boring stuff is the focus. 
The major issue is trying to be everything to everyone, while failing to reach anyone because of boredom. I think more understanding of individual learning is needed to get past this.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I posted this somehwere else, the current system cannot scale. Most people agree that more individual customization is the best way to get the most benefit from learing, but one teacher and 30 kids is already past the limit. We need more people involved with kids and their learning, in different ways, all through their life.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;It is wrong to say you need to &lt;em&gt;make&lt;/em&gt; someone into a lifelong learing. Humans are built to learn be default. If they aren't learning something is wrong. To imagine they need to be taught to learn is a big mistake.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Its kind of amusing to imagine children need to be <em>taught</em> that some things in life must be done. I suspect most kids live in an average home, with an average amount of chores, maintainence tasks, etc. I believe all children will learn by being around adults who do these tasks that you must do some things to get to the fun stuff. Of course, let&#8217;s not strive for mediocrity. I hope every kid learns that it is possible to  make a fulfilling life, where most of it has meaning, and the little chores fade into the background. School as we know if fails when the boring stuff is the focus.<br />
The major issue is trying to be everything to everyone, while failing to reach anyone because of boredom. I think more understanding of individual learning is needed to get past this.</p>
<p>I posted this somehwere else, the current system cannot scale. Most people agree that more individual customization is the best way to get the most benefit from learing, but one teacher and 30 kids is already past the limit. We need more people involved with kids and their learning, in different ways, all through their life.</p>
<p>It is wrong to say you need to <em>make</em> someone into a lifelong learing. Humans are built to learn be default. If they aren&#8217;t learning something is wrong. To imagine they need to be taught to learn is a big mistake.</p>
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		<title>By: Rob Wall</title>
		<link>http://stigmergicweb.org/2005/04/15/finding-correct-boredom-in-education/#comment-811</link>
		<author>Rob Wall</author>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Apr 2005 21:15:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://stigmergicweb.org/2005/04/15/finding-correct-boredom-in-education/#comment-811</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Actually, that's when I do a lot of podcast listening  - not just toilet bowls, but other housework as well. I don't think I can do dishes without Adam Curry's Daily Source Code. ;^)&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I don't disagree with you about nurturing the desire to keep learning continuously, if that's what people want. But I also wanted to make the point that some tasks that are necessary in life, such as scrubbing toilet bowls or washing dishes or planning meals and shopping for groceries. Schools don't necessarily need to teach students how to do these things (although all of them would have fallen within older Home Economics curricula), but we do need to teach students that some things that are neccessary for life can be kind of boring to do.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, that&#8217;s when I do a lot of podcast listening  - not just toilet bowls, but other housework as well. I don&#8217;t think I can do dishes without Adam Curry&#8217;s Daily Source Code. ;^)</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t disagree with you about nurturing the desire to keep learning continuously, if that&#8217;s what people want. But I also wanted to make the point that some tasks that are necessary in life, such as scrubbing toilet bowls or washing dishes or planning meals and shopping for groceries. Schools don&#8217;t necessarily need to teach students how to do these things (although all of them would have fallen within older Home Economics curricula), but we do need to teach students that some things that are neccessary for life can be kind of boring to do.</p>
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		<title>By: Will Richardson</title>
		<link>http://stigmergicweb.org/2005/04/15/finding-correct-boredom-in-education/#comment-810</link>
		<author>Will Richardson</author>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Apr 2005 20:43:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://stigmergicweb.org/2005/04/15/finding-correct-boredom-in-education/#comment-810</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I'm not sure I would have schools teach kids how to scrub the toilet, but if they do, I hope they teach them to be listening to a podcast while they're doing it. Time and place shifted content allows us to be constantly learning if we want to be. I want a system that nurtures that.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not sure I would have schools teach kids how to scrub the toilet, but if they do, I hope they teach them to be listening to a podcast while they&#8217;re doing it. Time and place shifted content allows us to be constantly learning if we want to be. I want a system that nurtures that.</p>
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